Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites

You knew more was going to be coming from Barack Obama regarding black responsibility. The question is, was it a generational shift as media like CNN would like to make it out to be? or was it another Bill Cosby type of message to the poor? There are differing views on the matter.

I personally find it interesting that Barack Obama used the same venue as Bill Cosby did a few years ago when Cosby set off a national debate in a speech to the NAACP where he criticized poor blacks. Like Barack Obama, Cosby emphasized personal responsibility, or the lack of it.

Candidly I have few problems with much of what Barack Obama said at the NAACP convention, However, the problem is he appeared to be preaching through the NAACP to white voters with "code words" that white John McCain swing voters want to hear from a black man running for the presidency of the United States. As International social and political activist and blogger Francis L. Holland noted: "I know he's really speaking to white America as much as to Black America when he says we need to take more responsibility. What he's essentially saying, is "Stopy blaming whitey and do what you can do for yourselves," which is a useful message to Blacks and a very much welcomed and even rather conservative message among whites."

As reported by Yahoo News,, ERUWeb and Urban Mecca

Democrat Barack Obama insisted Monday that blacks must show greater responsibility for their actions. In remarks prepared for delivery at the annual NAACP convention, the man who could become the first black president said Washington must provide greater education and economic assistance, but that blacks must demand more of themselves.

"If we're serious about reclaiming that dream, we have to do more in our own lives, our own families and our own communities," the Democrat said. "That starts with providing the guidance our children need, turning off the TV and putting away the video games; attending those parent-teacher conferences, helping our children with their homework and setting a good example." Yahoo News.

Well folks, the problem I have with Barack Obama is the same problem Algernon Austin and Jared Bernstein had with Bill Cosby when they wrote in the article, Why Bill Cosby Is Wrong:

"For decades, scholars and opinion makers have been seduced by cultural explanations for economic problems. Recently, comedian Bill Cosby has caught the bug, leading him to inveigh against aspects of black culture he views as intimately linked to problems among African-Americans, from poverty to crime and incarceration.
Mr. Cosby is merely the latest and most visible in a long chain of cultural critics. Researcher Charles Murray (before turning to genetic explanations) and columnist Thomas Sowell have been making the "bad culture" argument about African-Americans for decades. David Brooks has a long-running column in The New York Times linking culture and economic outcomes.

"This work is misguided at best and destructive at worst.One key to the success of the cultural argument is the omission of inconvenient facts about social and economic trends. For example, people arguing that African-Americans are suffering from a culture of poverty stress that blacks are much more likely to be poor than whites. True, but this fact misses the most important development about black poverty in recent years: Its steep decline during the 1990s.

Black poverty fell 10.6 percentage points from 1993 to 2000 (from 33.1 to 22.5 percent) to reach its lowest level on record. Black child poverty fell an unprecedented 10.7 percentage points in five years (from 41.9 percent in 1995 to 31.2 percent in 2000).

The "culture of poverty" argument cannot explain these trends. Poor black people did not develop a "culture of success" in 1993 and then abandon it for a "culture of failure" in 2001.

What really happened was that in the 1990s, the job market finally tightened up to the point where less-advantaged workers had a bit of bargaining clout. The full-employment economy offered all comers opportunities conspicuously absent before or since. Since 2000, black employment rates have fallen much faster, and poverty rates have risen faster, than the average.

What this episode reveals is how we squander our human resources when slack in the economy yields too few decent employment opportunities for those who want to work.

Black poverty is only the most visible example. The "bad black culture" argument also overlooks positive trends in critical areas such as education, crime and teen pregnancy (pregnancy and birth rates among black teenagers are down 40 percent since 1990).

Those same critics are too dismissive of anti-black discrimination in the labor market. Mr. Cosby says black people use charges of discrimination to avoid dealing with their cultural failings. The Manhattan Institute's John H. McWhorter claims they "spit in the eye of [their] grandparents" when they say their lives are limited by racism. Journalist Juan Williams argues that poor black people are squandering opportunities opened up by the civil rights movement.

Yes, there are far more opportunities available to black Americans today, but the conclusion that racial discrimination is no longer a serious issue is simply not supported by the evidence."

AAPP: I'm not going as far as blogger Sugar N' Spice who rightfully or wrongfully, seems to have it out for Obama. I would just like to hear Obama talking more about the issues of poverty in America and our responsibility as a nation to address poverty. But I guess I would be... expecting too much to hear a major policy address on poverty. It won't make great political sense... right?



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Re: Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites (none / 0)

I have criticized Obama whenever he would try to sell out. But in this case, I endorse his tactics. He may not have enough leverage to preach the poverty thing and win the elections at the same time. He is going to have to ride that fine line. In this case, he is telling the truth, even if it is not the entire picture,  but it just happens that it  will bring not just him credibility but for the group of black leaders who espouse similar sentiments. You have to do a gradual sell. If obama does not address these issues as President, then I would jump on him.

But I would not be satisfied with "positive" trends.  I do think rap gets blamed way too much. But here is the thing. Whites have the numbers, historical wealth, networking in this country to overcome shallow hair band culture from the 80s or Spears/Hilton culture recently. Blacks can't afford to indulge in the "Decline of Western Civilization"(to borrow from the series of docs by Spheeris) type culture.  Hell, things have gotten so bad, even whites cannot afford to indulge in that kind of lazy crap judging by the decline of the country overall.

I think the responsibility of America right now is to destroy inner city neighborhoods as they exist and rebuild them without regentrification. We spend billions on useless war on terror(there, I agree with Edwards on that term). We got security problems internally if we continue to have a major class divide on a permanent basis. I do not believe in big government. But I believe in spending big when warranted. The emergency is right now the economic differential of minorities like African Americans.  We need to provide Grades 1-6 not only with regular schooling, but boarding school, if necessary in disadvantaged neighborhoods where families have the option to let their kids stay in a dorm to escape any troubles back home. It will cost money, but I am sure if the DEmocrats of all races can frame this as investing in human infrastructure, then the money will come.

The reason why the Iraq war is such an important issue for me is that enormous opportunity cost this war has tolled. It has really played a part in ruining our economy not just from a pure money spent issue, but time that could be spent finding solutions to poverty are spent debating a useless war.


by Pravin on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 09:32:01 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites (none / 0)

I think the responsibility of America right now is to destroy inner city neighborhoods as they exist

I agree with this

and rebuild them without regentrification.

I'm not sure that's possible without also finding some way to counteract White/Wealth Flight. WF has the effect of producing low-value, ethnically homogenous neighborhoods (i.e. psuedoghettos). People leaving precipitously certainly drops property values, allowing lower income people to move in, causing more upper income people to leave, etc. Every city has once-prized suburbs that are now barely better than the city they surround (if not worse). I can point to the suburbs it's happening to in Pittsburgh.

To some degree, what happened with busing and school integration is EXACTLY what would need to happen with neighborhood integration. Of course, such a radcial solution would hardly fly in today's GOP-dominated America.


by Neef on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 09:59:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites (2.00 / 1)

Just curious. I used to live in Pittsburgh. Some of the suburbs' decline, i thought, was due to the stagnation of the population. Too many old people. Young people leaving the city. What have you noticed? Or are you talking about along Penn ave?

Anyway, back to your point about gentrification. I only raised that because I noticed in Atlanta, white people(gays being a higher proportion than the norm) would move in some city neighborhoods , buy some delapidated houses, fix them up, raise the value of the neighborhood. This would cause existing residents to pay higher property taxes. The only way they could benefit from this would be to actually move. Now the white people who would come in and "take over" the city neighborhood were being looked on unfavorably. HUman nature I guess, but it is highly unfair to the white people who raised the value of the neighborhood. (also I feel there were some anti gay bigotry).  Maybe government can come up with solutions to reduce some(after all, utopias are impossible) of these feelings. Maybe freeze property taxes to some extent until you sell(which is proposed in communities populated by old people).

We already have government divisions responsible for housing, schools, stuff like that. Part of the reason for their ineffectiveness is being short staffed. Another part is not enough accountability.  


by Pravin on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 12:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pgh is definitely (none / 0)

suffering from "youth drain". Paradoxically, the older people don't leave neighborhoods as quickly as the younger and more mobile. It's common to see a neighborhood with many older white people and many younger blacks. Young black/young white is not so common.

The suburb I had in mind specifically was Penn Hills. For perhaps a decade, that has been where upwardly mobile blacks move (generally, of course). During that same time, we've seen something of an exodus to communities farther out (such as Cranberry Township).

BTW, I see what you're saying about gentrification (which is probably the inverse of WF?). It IS unfair to the new residents who are raising property values. Oddly enough, I want to buy a townhouse, and I'm looking for a recently gentrified area. They tend to be on the upswing of the "neighborhood quality pendulum". No doubt it's people like me driving up prices.


by Neef on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 12:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pgh is definitely (none / 0)

Yeah we got kind of similar thoughts on this. I was a little sloppy with my comment on gentrification early on which is why i clarified my thoughts in the reply. I was not against people moving in and raising values through improvements.


by Pravin on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 02:58:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just because you ignore it... (2.00 / 2)

I would just like to hear Obama talking more about the issues of poverty in America and our responsibility as a nation to address poverty. But I guess I would be... expecting too much to hear a major policy address on poverty. It won't make great political sense... right?

...doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_O bama_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/07/18/re marks_of_senator_barack_obam_19.php?loc= interstitialskip

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/h isownwords

Obama has consistently said that, while there is still a huge racial disparity in this country, we all must work, black and white, to solve it.  He's said this from his earliest days on the public stage.  As usual, it seems that Obama's supporters have known more about him from the start than his detractors.

Go into any inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can't teach our kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white. They know those things.
-Obama keynote address to the Democratic National Convention, 2004

The stories that I had been hearing from the leadership, all the records of courage and sacrifice and overcoming of great odds, hadn't simply arisen from struggles with pestilence or drought, or mere poverty. They had arisen out of a very particular experience with hate. That hate hadn't gone away; it formed a counter-narrative buried deep within each person and at the center of which stood white people-some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives. I had to ask myself whether the bonds of community could be restored without collectively exorcising that ghostly figure that haunted black dreams.
-From Dreams from my Father

That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.
-From "A More Perfect Union" address, March 18, 2008


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 09:37:00 AM EST

Interesting (2.00 / 1)

Poor black people did not develop a "culture of success" in 1993 and then abandon it for a "culture of failure" in 2001.

Of course, an excellent point. One might also wonder why the black "culture of success" was coincidentally abandoned at roughly the time the Republicans took power.

I blame the Republican culture of hypersimplification. To the Right, the root of every problem lies solely with it's most obvious symptom. Blacks are poor? They're lazy. Mortgage crisis? Homeowners were fools or scoundrels. The R's never need to dig to deeply into anything, which is why they can't solve problems.

Of course that same simplification is highly attractive when you're successful. Your success is 100% your doing, no one elses. You're awesome, baby, nevermind the shoulders we all stand on to be where we are. Successful black men are obvious candidates for that sort of thinking, and it's VERY common to see blacks shift to the Right as they move up the economic scale. If you know a wealthy black family, they tend to be almost wildly conservative.

Cosby is certainly a possible victim of the "I did it so it's your fault if you can't" syndrome. He sees things through the lens of his fabulous success. Obama, in my opinion, simply doesn't see the issue as a black person would.

All that being said, black people DO have a responsibility to strive for better behaviors, much like every American does. What we have to make sure of is that the methods available to the rest of America are available to the black community. As just one example, any citydweller will tell you that police respond faster in good neighborhoods than in poor ones. This, of couse, has effects on the safety of poor neighborhoods. An unsafe neighborhood raises the bar for acquiring and keeping prosperity. And so on.

That's just one effect, you could list a dozen if you cared.

To be fair, the effects of poverty and density aren't limited to black people alone. Read some books about the infamous Five Points neighborhood, you may as well be reading about Compton.


by Neef on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 09:49:24 AM EST

I think the argument can be expanded to (2.00 / 1)

"Americans" and hold water as well.

Chris Rock said it well with his "Niggaz vs. Black People" standup rant.  As a white guy I have to consider my own perspective watching something like that, but I watched it once with my #1 six-hour-debate partner (black, cynical, massively intelligent conspiracy theorist - the perfect foil to my rosy-optimist whiteboy outlook - we have a thirty-year tradition of dissecting the world in nauseating detail).  We tore it apart with traditional vigor, and while we agreed that it is specifically apt on the topic it speaks to we also agreed that it is moreover true across Western Society as a whole.

The root meme is a primary topic for me when debating Canadian flaws (which, again, are a working litmus of related American and Western flaws):  "I'm just one person, I can't be held responsible", "The media/goverment/corporations/rich/Yanks/ men/white-folks/... have all the power, so I can't be held responsible for my life being fucked up", "if I had the chance I could be great but I don't so pass me another beer."...

Horsepoop.  "Ev'ybody funny. Now you funny, too."

Every human is faced with challenges.  Even being rich and powerful fucks people up (granted, many would prefer those sorts of problems).  Maybe it's true that a person's life is so challenged that there is in fact not a damn thing they can do to make it better (reality sucks), but it is better to die trying than to lay back in the mire.

And it doesn't hurt to be reminded.

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 10:02:00 AM EST

False choices (none / 0)

I find these sorts of debates on emphasis tiresome.  Someone who argues that "bad culture" is a problem isn't dismissing the importance of discrimination in the workplace or other systemic influencess.  Bill Cosby wasn't the originator of the "bad culture" argument--this predates Booker T. Washington.  What's next, an argument over who was better, Malcolm X or Martin Luther King?


by IncognitoErgoSum on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 11:26:33 AM EST

It depends on context (none / 0)

The "bad culture" argument doesn't imply or exclude other arguments. I have seen it made side-by-side with the statement that racism is dead. In that context, of course I disagree, but the culture argument doesn't preclude such a stance.


by Neef on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 12:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It depends on context (2.00 / 1)

I dont want to speak for Cosby. But I am guessing where he is coming from is this when he speaks to an African American audience in a school community - do not expect the system to change for you even if it is unfair. Chances are it wont change enough in the near future. So are you going to sit there and take it? You got enough tools to change. Use them.

My observation. A lot more black leaders have echoed similar sentiments at one point or the other. But there is something lacking in the cohesiveness of all of them as a group to spread that message. Also,  you see documentaries where many black single mothers want their kids to do well. But in the big scheme of things, it becomes useless as their kids will interact in a setting with others lacking such guidance or will.  But there needs to be a catalyst that empowers each of these indiivudal moms/fathers into a powerful group where a defacto strong community exists where they are the powerbrokers. Not the tyranny of the those who always try to bring others to their level, as is human in any ghetto regardless of race. That takes very strong leaders with access to legislation and get things done. We have compromised our rights and privacy for homeland security which is irrelevant to most people in the inner city.

Instead of trying to reform everyone at once, I really think Grades 1-8 should take up a top priority with education reformers in underperforming neighborhoods. Instead of doing a half assed job with everyone, at least let's get one generation right.

Accountability should also be increased in government agencies. Othewise throwing more money at problems wont do a thing.

If Obama or any other leader is serious about this stuff, my suggestion would be to prove it in their first term by adopting a few neighborhoods and showing states how it should be done. How they can do this with the litigation society we live in, I am not knowledgable enough to propose how at this point.


by Pravin on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 12:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

An excellent post (none / 0)

And to be fair, I see Cosby's point. There is no question that making the attempt to improve yourself is going to be more effective than not making the attempt.

My concern is, it's a partial solution. If I need a tooth pulled, drinking a bottle of whisky beforehand is absolutely better than nothing. No question. I'm still glad we went farther and developed anesthesia.

Black people are 13% of the population, but 44% of prison inmates are black. It's difficult to believe that such an amazing disparity can be explained by appeals to behavior. I'm not sure anyone even know the why's of that situation, much less the solutions.

At the end of the day, I think "work hard and succeed" is a crucial part of the American message - to anyone. I do worry that if the message becomes our solution, we end up essentially giving bottles of Jack Daniels to amputation patients, when they deserve much more.


by Neef on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 12:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My entire problem .... (none / 0)

with this whole 'code word' discussion is that if one digs deeply enough, or strives hard enough, one can find 'code words' in every speech by every politician from the days of Rome.

It's time that we can stand up and acknowledge facts that are factual and not become distraught over it.

Obama's words apply not only to some factions of the AA community, but also to factions of the non AA community.  


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 11:41:45 AM EST

Re: Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites (none / 0)

It appears there are two schools of thought in our 21st century debate about the AA condition.  There is the Bill Cosby school, one that relies on personal responsibility, a thought that Barack Obama implicitly suports; and the Jesse Jackson, Sr. school, one that argues government needs to address historical wrongs.  I am compelled to state that I support the Bill Cosby school, and thereby Barack Obama, on this issue.
The "American Dream" is achieved through personal perserverance.  While barriers still exist, fewer barriers exist today than in any other time in America's history for AA achievement.  A cultural revolution, such that existed in the '60s (thank you MLK), needs to be supplanted with personal responsibility.  
Let me be clear; stating so does not deny existant barriers to achieving the "American Dream".  Barriers to success have existed in America since its inception for many who are "different".  But barriers to success, the cultural, societal, and governmental impediments, have never been more minimized than they are today.  
Curiously, I had posted two diaries on Race during the primary wars.  They received little attention.  I was going to post a diary on Barack's recent speech to the NAACP, with clip you have provided.  I decided against it because I thought we are just not willing to address such seriousness on this site.  The level of interaction to your diary substantiate my beliefs.  In any event, I appreciate the opportunity to engage in a topic that is, IMO, equal to healthcare, energy, tax rate, and predominantly on this site all things PUMA.
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 01:38:58 PM EST

Re: Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites (none / 0)

There is the Bill Cosby school, one that relies on personal responsibility, a thought that Barack Obama implicitly suports; and the Jesse Jackson, Sr. school, one that argues government needs to address historical wrongs

I would suggest there's a third way, where personal responsibility is emphasized for the individual, while government seeks to address systematic inconsistencies in minorities versus non-minority experiences. A blended strategy. I'd agree that "historical" wrongs are in the past, there is no way or need to redress them.


by Neef on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 02:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Blacks and Whites (none / 0)

I suspect Jesse sr and Cosby are not all that different on this issue. I think the difference in rhetoric emphasis lies in the fact that JEsse is still apolitician and he must pander while Cosby is not in politics and is a rich famous celeb with no interest in new roles and he is at the oppostite extreme and can say whatever he wants without any filter and people will listen because of his celebrity status and his past financial donations to the cause of education.

I have heard Jesse Sr, Sharpton, and other usual suspects actually utter sentiments similar to what Cosby have said. I think long serving politicians , in addition to pandering, also may have a legitimate reason to soft pedal the issue because they know how it can be misused by malicious people on the right.


by Pravin on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 03:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

John Edwards ran on poverty issues . . . (2.00 / 1)

John Edwards ran on the issue of povery more than anything else, and look where he is now.  I believe that if Barack Obama makes anti-poverty a corner-stone of his domestic program, or even if he gives a big speech proposing to spend money to alleviate poverty, then the Republicans will cast Obama as a tax and spend liberal and he will lose the election in November by significant margin, like Dukakis, Mondale, and Kerry.  

In contrast, Bill Clinton's message was to take personal responsibility and that everyone who worked hard should be able to make in America, with a contract that involved personal responsibility and "growing the economy" and decreasing taxes on working people, so that working could lift people out of poverty and into the middle class.

That's the message that Obama can win with, if he has to mention poverty at all.  If he starts talking about America's debt to the poor and homeless, he's going to be called "just another poverty pimp" and he'll deserve it, not because it's true, but because he should have seen it coming.


by Manic Lawyer on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 02:17:03 PM EST


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