Clinton's Path To The Nomination

In a last ditch effort, Clinton supporters have been advancing for weeks now an argument that supers should hand Clinton the nomination because she performs better in certain swing states.

And it's true, that, as of late, Clinton has an edge over Obama in traditional swing states such as Ohio and especially Florida.

Too bad we can't take a snapshot of these polls and travel in time to November and win the election.

First of all, I see the better numbers Clinton enjoys in some states and nationally (sometimes) as a result of the heat being taken off her and put on Obama as far as vetting, gaffes, etc, goes. For the better part of the year, Obama performed consistently better in these polls, now he's at parity or slightly behind.

Is it a coincidence that Obama's edge in swing states has dipped and Clinton's has risen as he's taken on the role of presumptive nominee? McCain and Republican attacks are trained solely on Obama, at the same time Clinton is hitting him.

But, for the sake of argument, let's assume for the course of this diary these numbers hold up when the spotlight turns back on Clinton.

Let's think about what happens to get Clinton the nomination.

Sometime between now and the convention, Clinton is successful in convincing the remaining superdelegates to take an unprecedented step in modern political history and hand her the nomination. Now I realize that according to the rules they "can" do this, but the question to ask is what happens if they do. In doing so, they would overrule the pledged delegate leader, not to mention first AA candidate in history and the guy who has brought so many new voters into the process.

Now I understand Clinton's run is also historic. And I understand Clinton supporters will be unhappy when Obama clinches the nomination; indeed, I'd argue this unhappiness is largely present in the polls. But, whichever side you are on, it's hard to argue that Obama's nomination isn't largely expected at this point. As the pledged delegate leader, and the popular vote leader as well by most counts, he has by far the most legitimate claim to the nomination.

But can you imagine the uproar were the supers to hand the nomination to Clinton? Quite frankly, if you expect the numbers Clinton currently enjoys to hold up then, you are dreaming.

AA voters are crucial to Dem victory in many states. After this tumultuous primary season with accusations of race baiting flying either way, it's easy to imagine those people staying home or voting for the Green party in large numbers, even being disenfranchised from the Democratic party for good. For the young voters and Dem-leaning independents, Clinton's nomination would be nothing less than confirmation that the Dem process is stacked in favor of the establishment. Imagine those voters that were drawn into the party staying home or voting Nader in protest.

In other words, in making the case for her electability, the burden is on Clinton supporters to do more than point to a handful of polls this far out in the cycle. They need to paint a convincing path to the nomination for her that doesn't involve a total implosion of the Democratic party.



Display:


Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

How about latino voters? women? Jewish? catholics?
older voters? white working class? those folks are reliable but young voters...hum I don't think so.
by darlene25 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:24:20 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

The majority of Obama's supporters have been women. Ditto for the majority of Clinton's supporters. Three guesses why.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:28:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

hehehe,  funny

on a more serious note, the more Hillary and crew try and divide voters by class and race the more STUPID they look,  in the end everyone voted for Obama.    

The only arugment is with the weak Dem party in WV and Kentucky.

It says little when the same ratio of Dem voters who voted for Bush in 04 also voted for HRC in the 08 primary.

let it go,  you are running a MARK PENN strategy that already failed  [split the people and make them fight each other, leaving your position strong,   read his book Microtrends]


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yeah the white working class is reliable (2.00 / 1)

reliably Republican.
by JJE on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

Can we please stop including Jewish voters as Hillary's base? Poll after poll has shown they are about even among Jewish voters (depending on the state).


by BlueGAinDC on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 3)

It's funny when you have Sen. Clinton's supporters arguing how important it is for Michigan and Florida's delegates to be seated, and in the next breath that the delegates should be ignored with the superdelegates overturning the delegate count and vote for her for the nomination.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:24:42 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

It's called a senior moment.


by venician on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

You make the mistake of thinking consistency is important to the Clinton camp.  They don't care about that, they just want to win.


by ArkansasLib on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

There are no rules stating that super delegates have to vote according to delegate counts. In fact, pledged delegates don't have to vote a certain way. You are perpetuating a myth. In fact, super delegates are there to make sure the Democratic party doesn't make a mistake and nominate the wrong candidate (wrong being the one most likely to lose in the GE, in other words, Obama).


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:33:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

Is this why they keep endorsing Obama instead of the sniper from Tuzla?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:34:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

To whom are you referring when you say "sniper from Tuzla?"


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:35:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

Sen. Clinton.

You know, the candidate the superdelegates aren't endorsing.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

So, you are calling Senator Clinton a sniper?


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh... (2.00 / 1)


by kraant on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:40:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL. Totally. (none / 0)

I'm also calling Sinbad a commando, and Sheryl Crow a splinter cell.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL. Totally. (none / 0)

So, you'd have no problem if someone referred to Obama as the suicide bomber from Baghdad?


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:41:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL. Totally. (none / 0)

If he'd once claimed to duck suicide bombers while landing in Baghdad, no.

Has he?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL. (none / 0)

I think he has.


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

zenful6219 - I already addressed this. Everyone agrees they CAN do this. But you make it sound like there's nothing to it. I'm saying Clinton supporters need to explain to us, in making their case, a realistic vision of what happens if they do.


by animated on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

animated - I wanted to address it again. Thanks.


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

Good diary (of course I've been thinking the same thing for a while now!).  The Clinton supporter resentment factor is already "priced" into the polls.  The Obama supporter resentment factor should Clinton secure the nomination is not.  Especially now given the expectations and his large lead in pledged delegates and the likelihood of any Clinton nomination being assisted by favorable MI and FL seatings, the Obama supporter resentment factor would be HUGE!  You point to AA voters.  Undoubtedly, many would be pissed, but I suspect most would still support a Clinton nominee, just like I expect most feminists to support an Obama nominee--it's just too much in their interests.  However, the huge Obama following among young voters and independants would be much less likely to support the eventual nominee if their candidate does not win.  No way Clinton is the more electable candidate in reality.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:30:07 PM EST

I've always wondered how (2.00 / 1)

they pretend to unite with the Obamabots if Hillary is given the nomination. Smearing Obama on a daily basis and attacking his supporters (boyzzz) as naive and immature. Maybe it's because they know we're smart enough to know what's really at stake in this election. Both of our candidates are better than McSame.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:30:33 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

The American voters have the final say on this issue.  By a decisive margin, they have decided that Senator Obama is the nominee.

Obama is the winner of the Democratic Primary, and we now have to deal with that.


by baghdadjoe on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:31:59 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

You are wrong. American voters do NOT have the final say on who the Democratic nominee will be.


by zenful6219 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (2.00 / 1)

I don't have the time or inclination to put forth a counter-argument right now, but, I wanted to say that, though I am a Clinton supporter, these are the kind of thoughtful pro-Obama diaries that I think make a good contribution to this site.  You argue your points with logic and analysis, rather than with innuendo and insults.  Thank you.


Jim Martin for Senate!
by markjay on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:47:51 PM EST

Implosion (none / 0)

I agree with what you're saying, but I don't buy the "implosion" argument.

The Democratic Party has been imploding for the past 40 years. Now, we need to explode and expand our electoral map.

And Hillary's the one to do it by building on what we already have: her husband's winning coalitions from '92 and '96.


I proudly support Barack Obama for President!
by Zeitgeist9000 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:53:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Implosion (none / 0)

Unfortunately the party as a whole shrink during Bill's terms  - fewer Democratic governors, senators, mayors and so on. It would not seem to be a strategy that generalizes to the party as a whole.


by Wee Mama on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:42:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's Path To The Nomination (none / 0)

The superdelegates are "handing" the nomination to Obama. Take away all of his supers and he cannot get to the number without them. Same as Hillary.


by rossinatl on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:00:22 PM EST

The burden of proof on the Clintons is HUGE (2.00 / 3)

Diarist, you're absolutely right.  In order for Hillary to get the nomination, the superdelegates have to overrule the pledged delegates. In other words, they have to get up there at the convention and say, "I know Sen. Obama that you have won by all the rules we have and congratulations on being the first African-American to get this far, but we've decided not to make you the nominee.

In order to do that, there can't be some subjective opinion or crystal ball fortune telling about what will happen in November. There has to be crystal clear evidence that Obama simply CANNOT win. There isn't that, and barring that, Obama is the nominee.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:03:26 PM EST


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